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Dmc dante vs DMC3 vergil

who wins


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TWOxACROSS

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ive played as both vergils and from gameplay and cutscenes etc old vergil is better when u play as him in dmc3 he destroys everything without the aid of a doppleganger also dmc3 dante beat him once vergil beat that dante once and they had a tie that makes em even and lastly dmc3 dante is better in my eyes than new dante but thats just my opinion there is no need to make an arguement everyone will think differently thats life plus the votes show a lot agree


Uhm...gameplay ease is not a quantifiable source of a character's power, because it's based on the player's skill and arbitrary upgrades and "difficulties." I can murder things in Vergil's Downfall without Doppelganger with all the same speed as Vergil in DMC3. Cutscenes are also not great for judging a character's abilities, since they do plenty of things that we're not permitted to do during gameplay, skewing the results.

Then, when you take this stuff across two different universes, it's impossible to really figure out "who is stronger," since DmC Dante (in cutscenes) has enough strength to pretty much punch an entire building over, or in this case, a demon-god wrapped in a building. It wouldn't matter if classic Vergil were quick enough to parry all of his blows, by that standard, parrying even one swing with that much force behind it would snap Vergil's wrist like a dry twig.
 

Sieghart

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It wouldn't matter if classic Vergil were quick enough to parry all of his blows, by that standard, parrying even one swing with that much force behind it would snap Vergil's wrist like a dry twig.

It also doesn't matter if DmC Dante striking strength(With Eryx only) is Class K level if DMC 3 Vergil can easily dodge the slow attacks of that weapon.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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exactly ^^^ force of blows dnt count for crap if you can't hit the target plus vergil has the beowulf gauntlets which powee up his already superhuman punches and kicks he can also dual wield force edge and yamato together and has a full demon form that amplifies everything esp his speed so dmc dante may have the brute force but againts someone with vastly superior speed and swords skills he will lose
 

TWOxACROSS

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Except that Vergil's speed is shown through swinging Yamato fast, and teleporting Tricks - both things that DmC Vergil does, and that Dante won over. Hell that's HOW you win against Vergil, waiting until he's at the tail-end of one of his moves, his speed counts literally for sh!t when fighting him, unless you're trying to hit first. It's not really "vastly superior" when both Dante counterparts have matched it, and Dante always ended up winning in the end. And sure maybe Eryx is what afforded him the strength to punch a building over, but he still launched a giant succubus with his fists alone. Compared to Vergil's case, Poison seems bigger than, or as big as, Beowulf, and Dante knocked Poison around without the assistance of gauntlets like Vergil did.

Oh, and Dante has a Devil Trigger that literally stops enemies, so if he can use it to halt a demon-god wrapped in a building in its tracks, what's a half-demon's going to help for anything...? That's another thing, Vergil is half-demon and half-****scrape normal human, while Dante is also half-demon, he's still two parts supernatural being, so how does that skew the results? Demons and Angels have been locked in a war for centuries...or...since forever, as Vergil put it, Angels would have to be on par with the demons we see running the show in DmC if they were going to keep a battle raging for so long.

You ask for a silly balanced discussion, and you're putting up Vergil on a pedestal as some godlike thing. It's like me saying classic Dante would win something because "he's just too cool~"

In these hypothetical cases, we tend to overlook the fact that we'll make them go the way we want them to, lessening the potential of who "would lose." You can't just say "Wull, Vergil is so fast Dante couldn't keep up" when everything from gameplay to cutscenes has shown that he has the potential to not only keep up, but overcome :/
 
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VineBigBoss

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Uhm...gameplay ease is not a quantifiable source of a character's power, because it's based on the player's skill and arbitrary upgrades and "difficulties." I can murder things in Vergil's Downfall without Doppelganger with all the same speed as Vergil in DMC3. Cutscenes are also not great for judging a character's abilities, since they do plenty of things that we're not permitted to do during gameplay, skewing the results.

Then, when you take this stuff across two different universes, it's impossible to really figure out "who is stronger," since DmC Dante (in cutscenes) has enough strength to pretty much punch an entire building over, or in this case, a demon-god wrapped in a building. It wouldn't matter if classic Vergil were quick enough to parry all of his blows, by that standard, parrying even one swing with that much force behind it would snap Vergil's wrist like a dry twig.

It's really impossible to have a quantified, exact and undoubtable measure and explanation to what the outcome would be, mainly because:

- They're fictional and don't have necessarily "natural laws" like the real world behind them that we can use to define things precisely
- Both universes have different rules, concepts and the very nature of "power" in both universe seems to have a different take (see my early post, where i made some commentary about the differences in DMC and DmC demonic powers and demons themselves).

We have to assume a lot of things to be possible to tell what would happen. But still, i would bet all my tips on Vergil, why?

Because of things that are nearly given in the game's description and visual content it offers:

- He's a top-skilled swordsman
- His technique and speed are so great that the human eyes can't see properly his sword swinging (this is given by in-game description)

- He has a devil trigger that boost his abilitys independent from anything. His devil trigger is the same as Dante's one
- He has great endurance like Dante and we can see this in a lot of cutscenes where he fights Dante and they cut each other given 0 ****s for the wounds, or even make a direct comparison with his twin: they're suppose to have identical natural abilities (assumption that comes from reality itself) but developed in different manners, that's why they're twins in the first place.
- Yamato can cut through even the most resistant thing we've seen in the series by now: the Devil Bringer, the only thing that was seem surpassing Devil Bringer's "hardness" (i don't know if there's a specific word in english to this) was Yamato until now, in that cutscene were Sanctus pierces the devil bringer. Rebellion was not able to accomplish this, Nero even used the DB to block bullets from E&I and Rebellion slashes (it's useful to remember that Rebellion is a sword with magical properties and enhancement, as stated in several descriptions).

There's a lot of questions that we can raise, the most close we can reach to solve this duel is by collecting the little evidence and making "mental tests" with them, and by assuming things that are not really stated about both universes.

If you ask me for sincerity: i find this kind of comparison hopeless, because i don't think that's even possible or fair to compare characters from different universes in a proper manner. They're designed to work within that specific universe, and nearly nothing in fictional works are well-explained or have consistency, we try to emulate Nature (or the creation of a perfect God, for those who believe in some Creator to the Universe and reality itself) with our fantasys to some extent but we are unable to really make sense about everything that this fantasy have; that's why they're are fantasy in the first place.
 

TWOxACROSS

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If you ask me for sincerity: i find this kind of comparison hopeless, because i don't think that's even possible or fair to compare characters from different universes in a proper manner. They're designed to work within that specific universe, and nearly nothing in fictional works are well-explained or have consistency, we try to emulate Nature (or the creation of a perfect God, for those who believe in some Creator to the Universe and reality itself) with our fantasys to some extent but we are unable to really make sense about everything that this fantasy have; that's why they're are fantasy in the first place.


This is what I always figured. Like when a "which Final Fantasy character is the strongest" came up on the forum I moderate on, it's hard to figure out because so many things are so different in each universe. Some characters have killed gods, but then are they all-powerful gods like God, or are they just immortal deities like in greek mythology that could still be killed. And what about magic? In some universes anyone can use magic if they have the right thing (Materia, Guardian Force), or just devotion to learn it, but then in other universes, like XIII, only l'Cie can use magic, and l'Cie are essentially demigods. It's too difficult to figure out sometimes >.<

It can all be fun to gab about, but ultimately goes no where. It's fun playing devil's advocate though :p

*shudder* Horrible flashbacks to the Link vs Cloud Death Battle, which Cloud lost because Screw Attack is full of Nintendo fanboys and they actually got some of Cloud's information wrong, and then used it that as part of the reason he lost >.<
 

VineBigBoss

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This is what I always figured. Like when a "which Final Fantasy character is the strongest" came up on the forum I moderate on, it's hard to figure out because so many things are so different in each universe. Some characters have killed gods, but then are they all-powerful gods like God, or are they just immortal deities like in greek mythology that could still be killed. And what about magic? In some universes anyone can use magic if they have the right thing (Materia, Guardian Force), or just devotion to learn it, but then in other universes, like XIII, only l'Cie can use magic, and l'Cie are essentially demigods. It's too difficult to figure out sometimes >_<

It can all be fun to gab about, but ultimately goes no where. It's fun playing devil's advocate though :p

*shudder* Horrible flashbacks to the Link vs Cloud Death Battle, which Cloud lost because Screw Attack is full of Nintendo fanboys and they actually got some of Cloud's information wrong, and then used it that as part of the reason he lost >_<


There's too that "classic" fight about Superman vs Goku, the two most overpowered characters from Western and Eastern fiction, this fight is quite popular and seems all-wrong in a lot of manners too. If KI (or Chi) can be considered magic, then Goku has all the upper hand in that fight, but if not and talking strictly about force (the same force we have in reality) then Superman has all the upper hand. There is a lot of things that we have to rely on "jerry-rigs" to make that things work out properly, the very fact that Superman takes his powers from external sources makes him dependent on definitions created only by his world, the same for Goku genki dama (Spirit bomb) for example.
 

TWOxACROSS

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There's too that "classic" fight about Superman vs Goku, the two most overpowered characters from Western and Eastern fiction, this fight is quite popular and seems all-wrong in a lot of manners too. If KI (or Chi) can be considered magic, then Goku has all the upper hand in that fight, but if not and talking strictly about force (the same force we have in reality) then Superman has all the upper hand. There is a lot of things that we have to rely on "jerry-rigs" to make that things work out properly, the very fact that Superman takes his powers from external sources makes him dependent on definitions created only by his world, the same for Goku genki dama (Spirit bomb) for example.


Oh yeah, totally. I've never really thought of Ki as magic, because it's...life force, y'know? That's not really magical, everything has it. I think there's even a distinction between Ki-based abilities and some characters that used magic, wasn't there? My DBZ knowledge is rusty as all get out. I remember seeing some 4chan post about how someone actually measured out Goku and Superman's strength levels, was quite funny.
 
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Wow.
All I see in this thread is pathetic whining.
And you tell those who like DMC to shut their mouth?
They're the ones with childish behaviour or you?
I don't defend them either,but as long as you want to seem that you're far more mature and much more intellectual,at least prove it.
Don't tell anyone to shut up so you can whine and bullsh*t all you can because,you know : "you need to shut up because what you think does not matter unless we like it".
Is this what you call fair democracy on this forum?
I don't say you don't have the right to not like it,but you're on a Devil may cry forum.If you don't like it and bullsh*t it so much what's your mere existence?Especially on threads like these.

Putting this apart.
I already made my vote and as I know how to behave in a community who may have different opinions than mine without me insulting them or their choices I'm done on here.
 

darkslayer13

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1. the demons in DMC show a higher level of power than the ones in DmC. and Sparda is more powerful than Mundus in DMC but not in DmC despite the fact that DMC Mundus shows a higher level of power than DmC Mundus. so it makes sense that the DMC twins are more powerful despite not having an Angel half and one of the main points of DMC is that a human heart is more valuable then demonic (or angelic) power.

2. DMC Vergil clearly shows a far higher level of skill than DMC Dante and beats him the first time but loses in the end because he rejected his human heart and Dante didn't. while DmC Vergil despite having a few extra skills is shown to have always been weaker then DmC Dante and loses their only fight.

these two points show that DMC Vergil is substantially stronger than DmC Vergil so DmC Dante's ability to beat his brother is not evidence that he could beat DMC Vergil.

directly comparing the two DMC Vergil is shown to be extremely fast skilled and powerful. while Dante is shown to be physically strong but not particularly fast or skilled and hasn't demonstrated much knowledge about how to use his power other than DT. however DmC Dante has two advantages, his Devil Trigger's added effects (which probably wouldn't have much of an effect on DMC Vergil but might still be helpful) and far more importantly DMC Vergil is half human but rejects his humanity while DmC Dante is not human at all but has a human heart anyway and in Devil May Cry than means that DmC Dante will somehow barely win despite being completely outmatched in every way on the third try. of course he would have a lot more difficulty managing it than DMC Dante did and the first fight would probably end in him losing in half a second and barely surviving but he would win eventually. ( okay maybe not one the third try since the difference is power is this high but in Devil May Cry the human heart always wins eventually)
 

Demi-fiend

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Uhm...gameplay ease is not a quantifiable source of a character's power
... What?
Cutscenes are also not great for judging a character's abilities, since they do plenty of things that we're not permitted to do during gameplay, skewing the results.
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Now you're just eliminating every possible way to measure power, which is rather frustrating.
by that standard, parrying even one swing with that much force behind it would snap Vergil's wrist like a dry twig.
Hahaha! I'll use that argument every time someone says, "Derp! Classic Verge is stronger. Herp!"
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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look guys i dnt wanna **** anyone off or offend anyone i just wanted to hear opinions to get a debate going i realise i may seem biast on vergil i just believe him to be better that doesnt mean im right or its a fact its just what i believe so i apologise if i ****ed off or offended anyone that wasnt my intention so if ye want it can be locked as i dnt want any tension caused by it
 
Wow.
All I see in this thread is pathetic whining.
And you tell those who like DMC to shut their mouth?
They're the ones with childish behaviour or you?
I don't defend them either,but as long as you want to seem that you're far more mature and much more intellectual,at least prove it.
Don't tell anyone to shut up so you can whine and bullsh*t all you can because,you know : "you need to shut up because what you think does not matter unless we like it".
Is this what you call fair democracy on this forum?
I don't say you don't have the right to not like it,but you're on a Devil may cry forum.If you don't like it and bullsh*t it so much what's your mere existence?Especially on threads like these.

Putting this apart.
I already made my vote and as I know how to behave in a community who may have different opinions than mine without me insulting them or their choices I'm done on here.

Hmmmm...who are talking to or/and about?
 

Sieghart

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Except that Vergil's speed is shown through swinging Yamato fast, and teleporting Tricks - both things that DmC Vergil does, and that Dante won over. Hell that's HOW you win against Vergil, waiting until he's at the tail-end of one of his moves, his speed counts literally for sh!t when fighting him, unless you're trying to hit first. It's not really "vastly superior" when both Dante counterparts have matched it, and Dante always ended up winning in the end. And sure maybe Eryx is what afforded him the strength to punch a building over, but he still launched a giant succubus with his fists alone. Compared to Vergil's case, Poison seems bigger than, or as big as, Beowulf, and Dante knocked Poison around without the assistance of gauntlets like Vergil did.


I guess there is a pretty inconsistency about the speed of DmC Vergil. Gameplay wise, DMC 3 Vergil's dark slayer style is vastly superior to DmC Vergil's. It can easily teleport to the enemy's back leaving him unguard heck you can event teleport near the enemy just by pressing the circle button. DmC Vergil, gameplay wise can't do that. The teleportation is more like a dodging mechanic in DmC but in the cutscenes, we can see that DmC Vergil is fast enough to teleport to Dante's back(which he should sliced him with the yamato instead of pushing him) that we don't see in the gameplay. So yeah, i give him that. Poison is a little bit bigger than beowulf but i think the way Vergil dismembered beowulf is with pure accuracy rather than strength.

Oh, and Dante has a Devil Trigger that literally stops enemies, so if he can use it to halt a demon-god wrapped in a building in its tracks, what's a half-demon's going to help for anything...? That's another thing, Vergil is half-demon and half-****scrape normal human, while Dante is also half-demon, he's still two parts supernatural being, so how does that skew the results? Demons and Angels have been locked in a war for centuries...or...since forever, as Vergil put it, Angels would have to be on par with the demons we see running the show in DmC if they were going to keep a battle raging for so long.


And yet Hunter, Poison, Lilith doesn't stop when he goes devil trigger. Also i don't buy that Half Angel/Half Demon > Half Human/Half demon nor any species > species in a fanfiction battle. It's like saying that Kratos can beat Dante just because he is a Demi god which is a another discussion for a another time.

You ask for a silly balanced discussion, and you're putting up Vergil on a pedestal as some godlike thing. It's like me saying classic Dante would win something because "he's just too cool~"

Woah, calm down. Nobody here is saying that Vergil is some godlike thing xD

In these hypothetical cases, we tend to overlook the fact that we'll make them go the way we want them to, lessening the potential of who "would lose." You can't just say "Wull, Vergil is so fast Dante couldn't keep up" when everything from gameplay to cutscenes has shown that he has the potential to not only keep up, but overcome :/
lol nobody here is saying that Vergil would curbstomped DmC Dante because the speed of his movement. OG Dante was able to beat OG Vergil because of his reaction time. What i'm talking about is the movement or the attack speed of the character. In a fanfiction battle, attack speed and movement speed differs from one another. DmC Dante's striking class goes only to Class K when he got Eryx and it also requires charging...from what i remember. Plus, Yamato can cut through anything and was able to work on the devil bringer, so it should also able to work on Eryx. Once again, i'm not trying to say that Vergil would totally curb stomped Dante but DMC 3 Vergil got him beat in both experience, sword skill and regenerative powers.

In a fanfiction battle we have to assume what will happen if these two characters meet and go to one another. We have to mostly ignore the rules, laws and physics in both respective universe of the characters that is participating. We then gonna test each other character's feats, experience, ablilites and all that stuff and do a "mental test" like what Vine said. That's just how fanfic battles goes in the internet :D
 

Sieghart

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Are you really saying that the teleportation abilities of DmC Vergil gameplay wise are slower than DMC3 vergil?
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I watched that awesome combo video of yours like 7 times already xD
But in a fanfic battle we're assuming that both characters would start in a distance with each other. DMC 3 Vergil is able to teleport near to the enemy just by pressing O.

Oh, and DmC Dante asked me to relay these pictures in his defense.
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Can DmC Vergil, DMC3 VERGIL or DMC DANTE DO THIS? :p

HOLY HELL THEY CAN'T! **** everything i said, DmC Dante all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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