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Random thought I had concerning Arkham...

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Sure his boss fight is fun and all, but why tease us with him in Sparda's form if you're not gonna let us fight it?

That's bugged me ever since I first played the game and I only just now thought to talk about it. So dear readers, how do YOU think a Sparda!Arkham boss fight would've worked?

I, personally, would've liked the first half of the fight to be Sparda!Arkham and for the 2nd half (when Vergil shows up) to be Blob!Arkham, but that's just what I think. Sparda!Arkham would have a moveset similar to when Vergil uses Force Edge, minus the added Yamato moves, of course. Maybe it sounds redundant, but I would've loved such a duel.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
think about it though, it had to happen that the power went to **** because otherwise, sparda would have obliterated Dante, since Dante was nearly defeated by his brother who had only half the guys power, and not even the sword in it's actually helpful form plus the tiny amount he had, mundus almost killed Dante with 3 spears in dmc1, once Dante went SPARDAAAAA! they don't do nearly as much, even on DMD. not only that, but this was when Dante was even stronger, as his power level rises immensely per game, this is why his regular brother killed him in their first fight and was a tough match in his second and third fight, while nelo angelo, a form of vergil that was buffed my mundus, only deserved to be the second boss you encounter, and he's not even that hard.

Dante, so to say becomes far stronger, and nelo angelos slowness may not even be a real thing either.

consider this, vergil's attacks with yamato are officially revealed to be "faster then the eye can see" i can see vergils sword moving, Dante's own power may actually slow time for himself, this is why enemies are actually stupidly lacking in aggression in dmc2, they are actually the same, Dante is moving so fast to him it seems like a joke, remember how quickly he reacted to that random explosion in dmc2? he had moved and gotten there in less time then it took me or even lucia, an experienced hunter, but much weaker demon, to know what had just happened.

the saviour in DMC4 is a slow piece of ****, yet it's powered by a guy who does not seem to be very slow, it could be the size and wieght, but science rarely applies in devil may cry, the statue is actually probably a fast enemy when worked up, he was just lazily cruisin' during the cutscenes where there was no threat, and yet, seemed faster when fighting Dante in cutscene, but not when you were playing as him.

furthermore, consider this, vergils darkslayer "teleports" show a thin streak going to the target, implying massive speed gain instant of instant reloction, when Dante uses his trickster teleport, the same thing could be in effect, he just increases his own speed skills by a massive amount.

consider how the stronger demons are, the more aggressive they are, some, of course, are naturally faster then others, but what's stopping the basic hell enemies from making short shouts before teleports or slow moving scythe attacks faster, for the scythes, it could be strength, buy demons are generally stronger then humans and those scythes don't look stupidly heavy, and why such a long yell before the teleport on the white guys? can't they just, you know, teleport?

it could be that the yells, are actually tiny quick sounds, but Dante slows it the hell down.

in fact, consider quicksilver, it's not geryons version because, Dante's functions differently (he just clicks fingers, geryon has to catch you with his orbs.) it lasts longer, and most strangely, while this may work the same as on geryon, it uses his demon energy, the source of energy that Dante loses and gains back again frequently, the resource for channeling his powers, Does it not make sense for the devil power to be channeled through and magnified by quicksilver rather then just giving him the ability.

even more convincing, is how geryon actually does not own the power himself, he got it from demonic essence, which allowed him to absorb the demon power, if demon essence overdoses equals slow time ability, is it not implied demons can manipulate time?

i think any time in the cutscenes not seen through Dantes eyes are actually moving at normal speed, consider how the only human that can even keep up is lady, in the anime, patty sees Dante fighting demons through the curtain, yet, by the animes own logic, he could have killed them in 1 second, because every single shot is an instant kill, the demons were not on the other side of the curtain and Dante knows how to use a gun, so he didn't stop himself, even if it was all sword work, he could have been like, stinger. basic combo to instantly kill ten guys. stinger. repeat. done in 4 seconds.

i think that it was slow to patty (an entire minute or so!) because either, sid was using the powers of another demon to place patty in an bubble of slowed time, or he actually used another demons power to literally hack Dante's and use that to make patty and him move normally while Dante took waaaay to long to kill some random guys.

and nero may have it as well, consider how often things go slow mo for the guy, in the opening sequence he's fighting demons and bang! slow mo! then when Dante uses break ceiling like some lame assasin (which was super effective, by the way) boom! slow mo! nero does not know how to control his demon powers fully, yet it always happens when something dramatic or emotional occurs (kyrie is taken away = despair, demon fight = desperation to arrive before it's to late, about to die or get hit (that happens alot, if i remember correct, shaky on this one) = depseration, panic, survival instincts, or possibly all three.

when Nero went rage with yamato, agnus also devil triggered, yet there was a moment of stop motion just before he went and obliterated those bianco angelos randomly.

so in translation, Sparda wold move stupidly fast and oneshot Dante.

two, if he's lucky.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
think about it though, it had to happen that the power went to **** because otherwise, sparda would have obliterated Dante, since Dante was nearly defeated by his brother who had only half the guys power, and not even the sword in it's actually helpful form plus the tiny amount he had, mundus almost killed Dante with 3 spears in dmc1, once Dante went SPARDAAAAA! they don't do nearly as much, even on DMD. not only that, but this was when Dante was even stronger, as his power level rises immensely per game, this is why his regular brother killed him in their first fight and was a tough match in his second and third fight, while nelo angelo, a form of vergil that was buffed my mundus, only deserved to be the second boss you encounter, and he's not even that hard.

Dante, so to say becomes far stronger, and nelo angelos slowness may not even be a real thing either.

consider this, vergil's attacks with yamato are officially revealed to be "faster then the eye can see" i can see vergils sword moving, Dante's own power may actually slow time for himself, this is why enemies are actually stupidly lacking in aggression in dmc2, they are actually the same, Dante is moving so fast to him it seems like a joke, remember how quickly he reacted to that random explosion in dmc2? he had moved and gotten there in less time then it took me or even lucia, an experienced hunter, but much weaker demon, to know what had just happened.

the saviour in DMC4 is a slow piece of ****, yet it's powered by a guy who does not seem to be very slow, it could be the size and wieght, but science rarely applies in devil may cry, the statue is actually probably a fast enemy when worked up, he was just lazily cruisin' during the cutscenes where there was no threat, and yet, seemed faster when fighting Dante in cutscene, but not when you were playing as him.

furthermore, consider this, vergils darkslayer "teleports" show a thin streak going to the target, implying massive speed gain instant of instant reloction, when Dante uses his trickster teleport, the same thing could be in effect, he just increases his own speed skills by a massive amount.

consider how the stronger demons are, the more aggressive they are, some, of course, are naturally faster then others, but what's stopping the basic hell enemies from making short shouts before teleports or slow moving scythe attacks faster, for the scythes, it could be strength, buy demons are generally stronger then humans and those scythes don't look stupidly heavy, and why such a long yell before the teleport on the white guys? can't they just, you know, teleport?

it could be that the yells, are actually tiny quick sounds, but Dante slows it the hell down.

in fact, consider quicksilver, it's not geryons version because, Dante's functions differently (he just clicks fingers, geryon has to catch you with his orbs.) it lasts longer, and most strangely, while this may work the same as on geryon, it uses his demon energy, the source of energy that Dante loses and gains back again frequently, the resource for channeling his powers, Does it not make sense for the devil power to be channeled through and magnified by quicksilver rather then just giving him the ability.

even more convincing, is how geryon actually does not own the power himself, he got it from demonic essence, which allowed him to absorb the demon power, if demon essence overdoses equals slow time ability, is it not implied demons can manipulate time?

i think any time in the cutscenes not seen through Dantes eyes are actually moving at normal speed, consider how the only human that can even keep up is lady, in the anime, patty sees Dante fighting demons through the curtain, yet, by the animes own logic, he could have killed them in 1 second, because every single shot is an instant kill, the demons were not on the other side of the curtain and Dante knows how to use a gun, so he didn't stop himself, even if it was all sword work, he could have been like, stinger. basic combo to instantly kill ten guys. stinger. repeat. done in 4 seconds.

i think that it was slow to patty (an entire minute or so!) because either, sid was using the powers of another demon to place patty in an bubble of slowed time, or he actually used another demons power to literally hack Dante's and use that to make patty and him move normally while Dante took waaaay to long to kill some random guys.

and nero may have it as well, consider how often things go slow mo for the guy, in the opening sequence he's fighting demons and bang! slow mo! then when Dante uses break ceiling like some lame assasin (which was super effective, by the way) boom! slow mo! nero does not know how to control his demon powers fully, yet it always happens when something dramatic or emotional occurs (kyrie is taken away = despair, demon fight = desperation to arrive before it's to late, about to die or get hit (that happens alot, if i remember correct, shaky on this one) = depseration, panic, survival instincts, or possibly all three.

when Nero went rage with yamato, agnus also devil triggered, cancelling out Neros power with his own (or at least reducing), yet there was a moment of stop motion just before he went and obliterated those bianco angelos randomly(much weaker demons, much less able to resist his charms, i mean powers, yes, i just came up with bianco and nero romance for a cheap joke.).

so in translation, Sparda wold move stupidly fast and oneshot Dante.

two, if he's lucky.
 
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DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Except it isn't Sparda, it's simply a human assuming Sparda's visage and using some of his powers. That's kind of why I wanted the duel... Also, before the fight, Arkham tries to off Dante from behind and they clash, with Dante easily pushing Arkham away.

I simply think it's mean to tease us with one fight and then give us another, much less satisfying battle.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
Except it isn't Sparda, it's simply a human assuming Sparda's visage and using some of his powers. That's kind of why I wanted the duel... Also, before the fight, Arkham tries to off Dante from behind and they clash, with Dante easily pushing Arkham away.

I simply think it's mean to tease us with one fight and then give us another, much less satisfying battle.

arkham hadn't even started up though, trying to access spardas full power (or whatever, idk what happens there, but he clearly intended to power up massively)

still, the fact that the power didn't work on arkham doesn't excuse the fight for being a piece of **** with the worst video game ai i have ever sen.
 

Rebel Dynasty

Creator of Microcosms
Premium
I think the reason they didn't have the first part of the fight with Arkham assuming Sparda's visage is because Arkham couldn't handle Sparda's power (though it's entirely possible Capcom didn't really think about it, but it makes sense to me that it played out that way).

In fact, no one but his sons are capable of wielding the power of Sparda; they say as much in the games. Anyone else who tries to either winds up horribly warped, or they have to enlist help from other powerful artifacts, demons, etc...and they still don't have the full capabilities of Sparda's power.

That last I relate to Sanctus; he managed to wield it, somewhat...but he didn't have what it takes to utilize it fully. Even if he did, it's entirely possible Dante had surpassed his father's abilities by then, but I don't think that's why Sanctus was defeated; after all, though powerful, Nero still isn't as strong as Dante, and he is the one who actually defeated Sanctus (since Dante let the kid prove his own mettle, settle his own score, so to speak).

All that being said, I wish they'd done something more than the blob battle as well, but meh. *Shrugs* It was still a challenging battle, I find (more because of those damn tentacle-dolphin-whatever-the-hell-they-were things, lol.
 

Enigma

Crimson Sentinel
I never really thought about it. It seemed to make sense that Arkham couldn't keep the form of Sparda. But then, why turn into a blob? Why not simply let Arkham keep the Sparda form, and possibly warp like crazy sometimes, or writhe in pain? It would be more menacing and disturbing than just...a blob. So I do agree that we should've been allowed to fight him in some kind of Sparda form.
 

Rebel Dynasty

Creator of Microcosms
Premium
I never really thought about it. It seemed to make sense that Arkham couldn't keep the form of Sparda. But then, why turn into a blob? Why not simply let Arkham keep the Sparda form, and possibly warp like crazy sometimes, or writhe in pain? It would be more menacing and disturbing than just...a blob. So I do agree that we should've been allowed to fight him in some kind of Sparda form.


Good point; if he kept changing from a Sparda form to a writhing mass (with different limbs, faces, and so on poking out) it actually would have made his struggle to retain Sparda's power more palpable.

The blob form itself did have some tentacles and stuff poking out, but more variety would have heightened the experience, I think. :)

Of course, that "Jackpot" scene still makes me all sentimental...but the fight itself did seem to lack something.

I guess we know what that is, now.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Good point; if he kept changing from a Sparda form to a writhing mass (with different limbs, faces, and so on poking out) it actually would have made his struggle to retain Sparda's power more palpable.

The blob form itself did have some tentacles and stuff poking out, but more variety would have heightened the experience, I think. :)

Of course, that "Jackpot" scene still makes me all sentimental...but the fight itself did seem to lack something.

I guess we know what that is, now.

I just figured that if we had the "ermagerdahmablahb" form as the 2nd half of the fight, I think it would've felt more in-tune with the story. Arkham doesn't even seem too fazed by his transformation, one second he's Sparda and the next he's a blob. It felt very out of place to me.

I guess I just wanted a glimpse, a taste of Sparda's power in a boss fight. Fighting Dante in DMC4 simply made me want to pull my hair out and I had to resort to cheesing his AI to actually win...
 

Rebel Dynasty

Creator of Microcosms
Premium
I just figured that if we had the "ermagerdahmablahb" form as the 2nd half of the fight, I think it would've felt more in-tune with the story. Arkham doesn't even seem too fazed by his transformation, one second he's Sparda and the next he's a blob. It felt very out of place to me.

I guess I just wanted a glimpse, a taste of Sparda's power in a boss fight. Fighting Dante in DMC4 simply made me want to pull my hair out and I had to resort to cheesing his AI to actually win...


Lmao! I'm not going to lie, I am so cheap when I fight Dante, too. He's such a f*cking pain in the ass, it's impossible not to pull cheap tricks. XD Occasionally I can get off a decent attack, like Maximum Bet, but Showdown? Forget about it.

I see what you mean, though; the transition was kind of abrupt, in that fact.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Lmao! I'm not going to lie, I am so cheap when I fight Dante, too. He's such a f*cking pain in the ass, it's impossible not to pull cheap tricks. XD Occasionally I can get off a decent attack, like Maximum Bet, but Showdown? Forget about it.

I see what you mean, though; the transition was kind of abrupt, in that fact.

It's like, I'm going through the game as Nero, thinking "Yeah, I'm actually pretty good at this game!" and then Dante comes tra-la-la'ing along and trounces me with minimal effort. I dropped the controller. I was like "Excuse me, have I suddenly turned the game up to DMD AND put in the secret code to access the final boss early or what?"
 

Darkstar Darin

The Badass In Black
I never really thought about it. It seemed to make sense that Arkham couldn't keep the form of Sparda. But then, why turn into a blob? Why not simply let Arkham keep the Sparda form, and possibly warp like crazy sometimes, or writhe in pain? It would be more menacing and disturbing than just...a blob. So I do agree that we should've been allowed to fight him in some kind of Sparda form.

I read somewhere that Arkham didn't transform solely because of Sparda's power, but because of the darkness/evil in his own heart.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
I read somewhere that Arkham didn't transform solely because of Sparda's power, but because of the darkness/evil in his own heart.

yep, the file on Arkham says that, but capcom didn't have to pull that, since they control the DMC universe, it is a bit disappointing to have him turn into purple diarohea
 
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