Mystery woman

[Viper]

Following is part of what I ramble in private conversations, my wildest theory of them all, and thought I should share with the public, cause you know, talking and speculating is fun.

Brace yourself, this will be a long post.

note: Scarlet - placeholder name for mystery woman

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Do you think pope Solemnis will be mentioned? He finally succumbed to poison sometime shortly before the night Vergil was seen by Sanctus, and since we don't know how long was Vergil in town before that, there is chance he saw the old dude still alive.
Maybe the woman is mixed into it all, maybe she was there to save Solemnis, maybe she was there to put poison into his food/drink. The second doesn't inherently make her evil, maybe she was something like Lucrezia Borgia, mixed into evil things simply for being a girl born into evil family.

You know, that would be an awesome plot. If Sanctus was like pope Alexander VI, and the mystery lady was Lucrezia. Pope Alexander did poison people left and right, as well as bribed them, and while I don't recall his story precisely, but he could have gotten to his position of pope by poisoning the predecessor.

Sanctus was a retired general with very radical views, the reason why Fortuna became a respectable place could be because he ruled with iron fist... in the background, of course, it was important to appear as nice, old grandpa to his followers.
That could mean Solemnis was a nice guy, maybe too nice. Maybe he knew Vergil from before? If Scarlet could hypothetically poison his food, then she was really close to him. And if Solemnis knew Vergil, then she could have seen him as well, which would explain why she was the only one to take interest in the cloaked man on the street, she recognized him.

Scarlet doesn't even need to be related to Sanctus (Nero would be screaming till judgement day to know the old fart is his grandpa), she could have been persuaded by blackmail and later on see Vergil as her savior from being a puppet to Sanctus (there are a lot of puppets, both literal and metaphorical, in Fortuna).

The part where Sanctus and Vergil meet is kinda full of unexplained things...
Sanctus was supposed to stay in that room to "inherit Sparda's noble soul" - never revealed what was meant by that.
He at first heard Vergil move, only after he prepared to attack him that he sensed obvious difference in strength through aura. Sanctus went through ascension ceremony sometime real close to Dante's attack, so he was still human at the time.
Possible explanations are that even humans can sense aura (perhaps more cautious people), Sanctus became a bit demonic through his selfish scheme to poison Solemnis (sold his soul in some way), or that "inherit the soul" thing previously mentioned had something to do with it.

What if Scarlet could fight and she was something like Lady and then her and Vergil have a scene like Dante and Lady when they find the "corpse" of Arkham?

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Other theories include:

- her being a courtesan, highly educated prostitute for higher class (cause Vergil is too vain to go cheap)
- just another girl that Vergil saved from demon attack, perhaps she gave him shelter after that

What I saw, but highly doubt:

- her being Kyrie's and Credo's mom. That would mean Nero is madly in love with his half-sister (not just adoptive, but actual blood relation), and even though Japan doesn't shy from certain things, DMC is not that kind of a story
- Nero being cloned from Vergil, who is currently being kept by the Order... somewhere. Someone forgot it had to be at least 16 years between Nero's birth and DMC4, and if it was post DMC1 that puts Dante in mid to late forties, much older than said.

If Vergil's DNA was extracted during that visit, it would be much logical. The Order doesn't really act like they have his body, anyway. Agnus is even surprised Nero is a demon (because his abilities weren't a dead giveaway something wasn't right, i guess), so it had to be some scientist before his time or even some scientist not working for the Order (perhaps Scarlet left Nero at orphanage to save him).


Anyway, if you survived this, perhaps you wish to share something? Feel free to discuss other theories on her as well.

 

[berto]

In my earnest opinion I think that woman was just some random churchgoer who saw Vergil and though 'Sparda? Is that you?' and that is it, not the mother of his babies.

I also keep telling people Nero's mother was not a prostitute/courtesan/geisha/Japanese highschool girl who partakes in compensated dating nor any other form of woman who sells herself. That's what they told Nero because they were so common when his mother dropped him off and since she left nothing suggest her identity they assumed that 'Hey, new kid, lots of hookers, probably left here by one.' It's the king of logic put together by a bunch of gossipy neighborhood women with no sense of decorum.

 

[Wuodan]

Anyway, if you survived this, perhaps you wish to share something? Feel free to discuss other theories on her as well.

It is so much fun being able to speculate again... Although we are dealing with a very slippery ground here. Trying to come to a senseful theorize at this point is like trying to estimate subatomic properties of dark matter while both we don't even know what dark matter is and don't know even nearly about subatomic particles.
So yeah, we are actually fanfictioning now and barely coming with something solid; but fun is fun. I didn't read the Deadly Fortune summary so I don't really know what I'm talking about but let's begin anyway. This ended up as a long post so please take a deep breath.
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First of all I think Nero's born was pretty natural and he was always like a normal human being in the eyes of everyone till DMC4. Any other theory feels like not possible simply because neither Sanctus nor Agnus nor Credo was concerned about Nero, like, at all.

At this point, I wonder about his arm. Cause I'm pretty sure about it being normal until it gets to meet with Dante. I mean as far as I know it was injured years ago. It would need medical attention and trait and change of plaster. If a nurse would know, then Sanctus would surely know. Even Kyrie and Credo does not know anything about it while being his closest friends, prattically brother&sister. I'd like to be informed about it if there's anything in the novel.
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Secondly I am really not able to imagine Vergil having sexual intercourse with a human. It would mean him to giving up his humane desires, which he despises. Sure everyone can break their moral code once or twice; but Vergil is a pretty collected guy...as long as someone doesn't remind him he's half human. So I don't think Nero was a child of a "mistake". I can imagine Vergil having sex with a half-demon or a demon female; but as far as I know this will contradict with canon. Many times it's stated that Nero is more human than Dante.

So my opinion is Nero is either son of a ritual and Scarlet is a priestess OR she somehow fooled Vergil/made Vergil believe that she is very powerful, maybe even supposedly demonic. Maybe she is around the level of Arkham or a holy person Lady's mother, someone who's able to earn Vergil's respect.

And I also believe Nero was a love child. In DMC3, Vergil implies that he knows Sparda's power wouldn't work by saying "You can't handle it." to Arkham. We know it's the human half of Dante&Vergil makes them stronger. If Vergil knows it, it's possible for Vergil to see Nero as a heir, a potential to awaken greater power since he's more human in blood than him. Vergil embracing his demonic side and despising/shaming humanity doesn't necessarily mean he can't see human blood as a way to achieve greater power. Maybe Vergil's real intention with getting Sparda's power was to teach Nero more thoroughly and ultimately giving it to Nero as a gift and as a mean to make him even more powerful.

There's one another possibility like Scarlet raping Vergil...but that doesn't and probably can't make sense and pratically impossible. I won't speculate on that.
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Not necessarily related; but I believe Sanctus was a faithful man who is loyal and -maybe extremely loyal- to Sparda and I think he believes he did the right thing all along with the Ascension Ceremony, awakening the Savior and everything else he had done. He is not a ruler wannabe or power seeker mastermind like Arkham, just a smart person that's too passionately religious. That's also why he yells "The power of Sparda, why won't you give me strength?" after being defeated by Nero. In my opinion of course. Just wanted to point that out.

Also about that "sensing Vergil" thing, Sanctus looks like he was in the demonic arts department for a long, long time. He probably knows a thing or two.
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On Scarlet meeting with Vergil... I don't have a clue how it happened or how it could happen. Like I said, I didn't read the Deadly Fortune summary yet. And honestly I'm not able to guess anything on that. But since she's in the Order, maybe he had a random chance to meet with her(like what happened with Arkham) and he used Scarlet to get to know about the Order more, and things come to Nero as things progressed.
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Lastly, I think it's better for DMC's future to never explain how did Scarlet and Vergil meet or made a baby. Sometimes plot holes has a nice charm to them and that's one of the reasons I love about DMC. We are able to discuss literally anything and come up with any theory. A full explanation of things, unless done perfectly fitting, can and will ruin this charm. Knowing Nero is Vergil's son and a son from a human mother is enough for me and I think it's the only fact DMC needs to progress -at least in manner of Nero's origins-.

 

[Veloran]

I'd like to be informed about it if there's anything in the novel.

Nero's arm transformed a few weeks before the game begins, during a Demon attack in which Kyrie was in harm's way. Nero played it off as an injury and didn't inform anyone of what actually occurred.

 

[Wuodan]

Nero's arm transformed a few weeks before the game begins, during a Demon attack in which Kyrie was in harm's way. Nero played it off as an injury and didn't inform anyone of what actually occurred.

So there's a possibility Sanctus knowing about Nero's situation. Maybe he just didn't expect Nero to develop this quickly. Interesting.

 

[Veloran]

So there's a possibility Sanctus knowing about Nero's situation.

No?

How would that statement lead you to believe he could have known? Nero told nobody and everyone believed he had simply been injured, nothing more.

 

[Wuodan]

No?

How would that statement lead you to believe he could have known? Nero told nobody and everyone believed he had simply been injured, nothing more.

I just mean he might know about Nero having demonic powers. Not what happened in that demon attack. I'm aware that it sounds highly unlikely. it still opens up why he didn't make Agnus examine Nero. But it's still kinda possible.

 

[Veloran]

I just mean he might know about Nero having demonic powers. Not what happened in that demon attack. I'm aware that it sounds highly unlikely. it still opens up why he didn't make Agnus examine Nero. But it's still kinda possible.

But why?

 

[Viper]

According to the novel Sanctus guessed Nero is Vergil's son, cause Nero was found certain time after Vergil's visit, so he probably knew Nero might have demonic powers with time, but not to which extent. From the way he speaks in the game, it seems he was hoping that the boy, as someone raised in their cult, will join his cause, but of course Nero refused.

 

[Gel]

A "lady of the night" is still the best ( probable) scenario.
Novel says:
"Right after his first battle with Nero, Dante was supposed to go straight to the headquarters to kill off the rest of the Order but he opted to take his time and take a detour to look around Fortuna City for clues that may help answer whether Sparda truly ever lived there. The novel explains that Dante didn't really care to know the truth about such things. Most things he knew about his father, he heard. It didn't matter to him if what he's heard was true or false, he simply accepted them as is, but the same couldn't be said about his twin. Vergil was one who was obsessed to look up everything he could, and this was set as a hint to show that Vergil was likely to have set foot in Fortuna City for that reason."
Vergil was already thirsty for power, so he went there. So, better wait for " Vergil was a dirty bag" excuse from Capcom to avoid bring him again.In case of that woman had complained, Vergil would answer " you're a lousy woman! You gave yourself easily!Now deal with your problems, since I don't need you anymore."
Two or three cutscenes are not enough to tell a love story, so he got cozy with someone, left that person behind and gave a sh*t about what he have done ( more or less like DmC Vergil, who simulate his affection for Kat in order to have access to her powers and making her following him like a puppy.)
As out of character as this may sounds, this is highly plausible, unfortunately for me. capcom has that touch which can turn a godlike character into a filthy sc*m.

 

[Veloran]

So, better wait for " Vergil was a dirty bag" excuse from Capcom to avoid bring him again.In case of that woman had complained, Vergil would answer " you're a lousy woman! You gave yourself easily!Now deal with your problems, since I don't need you anymore."

I'm going to guess this wasn't the case at all. Even if it wasn't a matter of love or anything of the sort, a situation like that seems extremely doubtful.

Frankly wildly speculating about the details is pointless right now. The ending will likely come out soon enough.

 

[Gel]

Frankly wildly speculating about the details is pointless right now. The ending will likely come out soon enough.

I know, but that's the reason behind this thread existence, to speculate.

 

[Astaroth123]

Who the heck is Scarlet?.

 

[Gel]

Scarlet comes directly from "scarlet woman". It was a code name me and Viper use toward the woman in red.

 

[Viper]

@Gel
You got me thinking... if Vergil was obsessed with getting to every detail on Sparda, then he left no book or object untouched. Sparda living in Fortuna as feudal lord many years ago means there had to be some objects left behind him that are considered sacred by the Order. As well as having knights to protect them, these objects also need people in charge of preserving them. That's another possibility how Vergil and Scarlet could have crossed paths.

 

[Gel]

@Gel
You got me thinking... if Vergil was obsessed with getting to every detail on Sparda, then he left no book or object untouched. Sparda living in Fortuna as feudal lord many years ago means there had to be some objects left behind him that are considered sacred by the Order. As well as having knights to protect them, these objects also need people in charge of preserving them. That's another possibility how Vergil and Scarlet could have crossed paths.

Maybe...but you think Capcom would bother to write something better than:
Scarlet: Nice cloak, stranger! Do you wanna a ride?
Vergil: Well, now I'm motivated!

 

[Astaroth123]

@Gel
You got me thinking... if Vergil was obsessed with getting to every detail on Sparda, then he left no book or object untouched. Sparda living in Fortuna as feudal lord many years ago means there had to be some objects left behind him that are considered sacred by the Order. As well as having knights to protect them, these objects also need people in charge of preserving them. That's another possibility how Vergil and Scarlet could have crossed paths.

Nice theory my friend. now you have me thinking that Scarlet has something powerful locked up.

 

[Viper]

Maybe...but you think Capcom would bother to write something better than:
Scarlet: Nice cloak, stranger! Do you wanna a ride?
Vergil: Well, now I'm motivated!

Vergil: You will not forget this devil's power!

Have faith, friend, even a blind chicken eventually finds corn. XD

 

[Gel]

Nice theory my friend. now you have me thinking that Scarlet has something powerful locked up.

Yes, Vergil! Well, for sometime at least!:tongue:

 

[Gel]

In my earnest opinion I think that woman was just some random churchgoer who saw Vergil and though 'Sparda? Is that you?' and that is it, not the mother of his babies.

I also keep telling people Nero's mother was not a prostitute/courtesan/geisha/Japanese highschool girl who partakes in compensated dating nor any other form of woman who sells herself. That's what they told Nero because they were so common when his mother dropped him off and since she left nothing suggest her identity they assumed that 'Hey, new kid, lots of hookers, probably left here by one.' It's the king of logic put together by a bunch of gossipy neighborhood women with no sense of decorum.

Now, your point of view is interesting. I know most of us assume quickly that woman could be Nero's mom, but as far as I know, it's not the first time an irrelevant character is shown as important in a trailer( like in RE5 trailer, it seems), only to be proved that character means nothing for the main plot.
You seem very sure his wife/woman/ whoever isn't this woman and it's not the first time you are well informed about it.Well, knowing Vergil, I was expecting a wife of sorts 8 since he wants so much emulate Sparda , but this could not be the case.
May you share more with me , please?